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Is it still a handout dovetail if you use machines

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Forum topic by Jacksdad posted 12-11-2017 01:48 AM 4377 views 0 times favorited 62 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Jacksdad

166 posts in 387 days


12-11-2017 01:48 AM

Topic tags/keywords: joining

I’m making a recipe box for my wife for Christmas and I’m dovetailing the sides. When is it not considered hand cut, if you use more machinery than hand saws, or if you use any machinery, I used my scroll to cut the angled lines for the dovetail and I’ll chop them out with my chisel, and cut the pins with a handsaw. How do you do it?


62 replies so far

View ColonelTravis's profile

ColonelTravis

1756 posts in 1857 days


#1 posted 12-11-2017 02:32 AM

Technically, I’d call yours 100% hand-chopped and maybe 50% hand-cut but not 100% hand-cut. In the end, does it really matter?

I do mine by hand but use Dave Barron’s guide for the saw cuts. Some people think that’s cheating, which to me, is ridiculous. Pretty much the only people in the world who care about the method are builders. Everyone else just thinks they look good.

View Andre's profile

Andre

1775 posts in 1769 days


#2 posted 12-11-2017 03:16 AM

Technically if any machine was used in the process, the “hand cut” is voided! :)
Heard of a very talented guy who would use a use a router jig but make scribe lines
to make it look hand cut?

-- Lifting one end of the plank.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

4041 posts in 2272 days


#3 posted 12-11-2017 03:44 AM



Technically if any machine was used in the process, the “hand cut” is voided! :)
Heard of a very talented guy who would use a use a router jig but make scribe lines
to make it look hand cut?

- Andre

Does this mean if I use a jointer plugged into an outlet to prep the sock the dovetails can’t be called hand cut?

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

15278 posts in 2581 days


#4 posted 12-11-2017 03:47 AM

Cutting with a machine (scroll saw) means not hand cut.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

1352 posts in 1761 days


#5 posted 12-11-2017 03:48 AM

Technically if any machine was used in the process, the “hand cut” is voided! :)
Heard of a very talented guy who would use a use a router jig but make scribe lines
to make it look hand cut?

- Andre
Does this mean if I use a jointer plugged into an outlet to prep the sock the dovetails can t be called hand cut?

Yep that’s right your disqualified if you even think about using a machine.:)

-- Aj

View Rich's profile

Rich

2624 posts in 552 days


#6 posted 12-11-2017 03:57 AM

Technically if any machine was used in the process, the “hand cut” is voided! :)
Heard of a very talented guy who would use a use a router jig but make scribe lines
to make it look hand cut?

- Andre
Does this mean if I use a jointer plugged into an outlet to prep the sock the dovetails can t be called hand cut?

- AlaskaGuy

That’s right, AG. In fact, if you use any tools at all — saws, chisels, etc — they are not technically “hand cut.” They are tool cut.

Now, if you want to say, “hey Rich, you’re so stupid, no one can cut wood with their hands,” I say to you, where does it end? You control the saw and chisel with your hands, so you say they’re hand cut. Well, I control the router on my Leigh jig with my hands, so are mine hand cut? Where’s does the line get drawn?

Carl Sagan said that if you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

Let the ridiculousness begin…....

-- No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.

View Jbay's profile

Jbay

2224 posts in 862 days


#7 posted 12-11-2017 04:12 AM

It’s only a handout if someone gives you the dovetail machine :>)

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

4041 posts in 2272 days


#8 posted 12-11-2017 05:35 AM

Technically if any machine was used in the process, the “hand cut” is voided! :)
Heard of a very talented guy who would use a use a router jig but make scribe lines
to make it look hand cut?

- Andre
Does this mean if I use a jointer plugged into an outlet to prep the sock the dovetails can t be called hand cut?

- AlaskaGuy

That s right, AG. In fact, if you use any tools at all — saws, chisels, etc — they are not technically “hand cut.” They are tool cut.

Now, if you want to say, “hey Rich, you re so stupid, no one can cut wood with their hands,” I say to you, where does it end? You control the saw and chisel with your hands, so you say they re hand cut. Well, I control the router on my Leigh jig with my hands, so are mine hand cut? Where s does the line get drawn?

Carl Sagan said that if you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

Let the ridiculousness begin…....

- Rich


Well the terminology needs changing then. instead of “hand cut dovetails” it need to be ” dovetails cut my hand guided hand tools”.

Rich, you’re not stupid very often. :)

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

11475 posts in 2343 days


#9 posted 12-11-2017 07:15 AM

Your wife won’t care if you used a scrollsaw, unless she is a Lumberjock, so call it what you like. :)

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

4945 posts in 2456 days


#10 posted 12-11-2017 11:45 AM



Your wife won t care if you used a scrollsaw, unless she is a Lumberjock, so call it what you like. :)

- Rick_M


That’s pretty much it…..Lonnie Bird built a chest in an article I read a few years back. The carcase was joined by 1/2 blind DTs. He freehanded most of the waste out with a router, then chiseled them to fit…and called them “hand cut”. Call it whatever you want, I won’t argue.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Jim Jakosh's profile

Jim Jakosh

20270 posts in 3068 days


#11 posted 12-11-2017 12:04 PM

Here’s how I do it:
I use a router template and cut half blind dovetails. I have yet to cut one by hand but appreciate the skill and accuracy of those who do. I have to make some Recipe boxes too and I will use a lock miter bit for the corners.

Cheers, Jim

-- Jim Jakosh.....Practical Wood Products...........Learn something new every day!! Variety is the Spice of Life!!

View Ron Aylor's profile

Ron Aylor

2493 posts in 610 days


#12 posted 12-11-2017 12:20 PM

 
I think it’s an issue of using electricity. If the scroll saw was human powered … I’d say yes, hand cut. But like Rick says … Your wife won’t care.

-- Ron in Lilburn, Georgia.  Knowing how to use a tool is more important than the tool in and of itself.

View rwe2156's profile

rwe2156

2881 posts in 1443 days


#13 posted 12-11-2017 02:51 PM

I say it has to be with hand tools & by candlelight. LOL

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Ron Aylor's profile

Ron Aylor

2493 posts in 610 days


#14 posted 12-11-2017 03:03 PM



I say it has to be with hand tools & by candlelight. LOL

- rwe2156

I was going to say that, but didn’t want to cause a fracas! LOL.

-- Ron in Lilburn, Georgia.  Knowing how to use a tool is more important than the tool in and of itself.

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

4680 posts in 2314 days


#15 posted 12-11-2017 03:24 PM

Just call them dovetails.

-- Bondo Gaposis

showing 1 through 15 of 62 replies

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