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Finishing a pine desk

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Forum topic by bluephi1914 posted 07-30-2018 05:38 AM 484 views 0 times favorited 10 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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bluephi1914

78 posts in 1507 days


07-30-2018 05:38 AM

I’m working on a pine desk. I’ve heard that if I use higher grit 220 320 sandpaper that it will not allow the pores to open up and accept the stain properly

but then I’ve also heard that if I use 150 grit that I’ll see swirl marks in my finish from the orbital sander I’m using general water-based gloss stain

can anyone shed any light on this topic for me please

thank you in advance.

I’m looking for a high good shine.

-- Jack of all trades and a master of most of them.


10 replies so far

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12370 posts in 2529 days


#1 posted 07-30-2018 07:02 AM

Both can be true. Your final Sanding should be by hand, with the grain, until all swirl marks are gone. The Sanding has nothing to do with pores. The smoother the surface the less stain will stay on the wood when you wipe it off. Coarse sandpaper makes bigger scratches than fine sandpaper, bigger scratches create more surface area for the stain.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1151 posts in 2101 days


#2 posted 07-30-2018 12:02 PM

Pine can be very prone to blotching when you stain it. Using a preconditioner is a good idea. Watch Charles Neil’s video for some information. Also Google a bit and you will find tons of information.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrE1xTG_V5b5hkAMgpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0N2Noc21lBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNwaXZz?p=charles+neil+blotch+control&fr2=piv-web&fr=mcafee#id=1&vid=d02c9f2276badc2915e6fdfded4f4796&action=view

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OSU55

1870 posts in 2138 days


#3 posted 07-30-2018 12:04 PM

Which specific gf stain are you using? Pigmented stains are affected by grit as described above, bigger scratches catch more pigment. Dye does not catch in the scratches and is much more forgiving of sanding “errors”. GF has dye stains. Most pigmented stains also have dye in them. Dye will create blotching – the dye soaks into the wood, pigment does not. Pine blotches – read here for how to control.

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bluephi1914

78 posts in 1507 days


#4 posted 07-30-2018 03:43 PM

Im using General stain with a brown trans dye

-- Jack of all trades and a master of most of them.

View dschlic1's profile

dschlic1

442 posts in 2118 days


#5 posted 07-30-2018 04:40 PM

Check out my pine table project. Sanded to 220 grit with a random barbital sander, stained with Minwax oil based stain, finished with Minwax oil poly. The pine was old used pallet wood.

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12370 posts in 2529 days


#6 posted 07-30-2018 04:43 PM

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t know of any “wood stain” without pigment and I believe all have dye. I was taught that stain is a combination of pigment and dye. Dye alone is just sold as dye and can be applied directly or used as a toner. It’s often recommended to sand the end grain to a higher grit than the face so it will accept less stain. The blotch control mentioned is also a good idea. It’s a good idea to practice on scrap first.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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OSU55

1870 posts in 2138 days


#7 posted 07-30-2018 04:43 PM

So you are using GF HP poly finish with transtint dye added? There is nothing wrong with that method, I do it often, but it isnt called a stain, but rather a toner. If using this directly on the pine gives you the desired color and intensity, great. Typically a dye or stain is applied first, then a toner is used to even out and intensify color. Also toners are usually sprayed – its very difficult to get proper blending of lap marks by wiping or brushing. I suggest you make a lot of sample boards to test out your finish schedule before starting on the actual table.

After toning clear finish coats are applied. They may be tinted but at less intensity than the toner coats.

View BroncoBrian's profile

BroncoBrian

793 posts in 2107 days


#8 posted 07-30-2018 04:49 PM

Make sure you test it first. I tried the GF pictured above and it went yellow and orange. Looked bad.

Decided against any liquid and went with a wax instead. You could get untinted or medium wax as well. I used dark wax for this table: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/386217

-- I'd like to see a forklift lift a crate of forks. It'd be so damn literal!

View bluephi1914's profile

bluephi1914

78 posts in 1507 days


#9 posted 07-30-2018 09:22 PM



So you are using GF HP poly finish with transtint dye added? There is nothing wrong with that method, I do it often, but it isnt called a stain, but rather a toner. If using this directly on the pine gives you the desired color and intensity, great. Typically a dye or stain is applied first, then a toner is used to even out and intensify color. Also toners are usually sprayed – its very difficult to get proper blending of lap marks by wiping or brushing. I suggest you make a lot of sample boards to test out your finish schedule before starting on the actual table.

After toning clear finish coats are applied. They may be tinted but at less intensity than the toner coats.

- OSU55

you are correct i mispoke its actually a topcoat i’m using with a dye added in it… finishing isnt my strong point, i absolutely hate it… but lately since i switched from minway to water based general finishes its been a little more enjoyable. I went to general finishing workshop at woodcraft and they open my eyes to a whole lot of different techniques… i.e mixing dye in top coat. I’ve been doing it this way ever since… and i love it. i usually mix up enough dye/topcoat mix to coat my project… then i come back with a few more coats of the topcoat it self.

i just wanted to know if i needed to hand sand or was an orbital sander 320 grit sufficient

-- Jack of all trades and a master of most of them.

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

1870 posts in 2138 days


#10 posted 07-31-2018 12:20 PM

I highly recommend a final sand by hand. After ros, hand sand with same or higher grit with the grain, dampen the surface with water and look for issues. Can use ms it will evaporate quicker. Sand out issues by hand. Since you are using wb Now wet the surface down well with water, let dry, hand sand lightly with 320 – preraising the grain and knocking it down.

I have done the same schedule you are doing, I don’t anymore. The problem with wb stains and finishes is lack of chatoyance – tiger eye effect. A few ways to address. Target coatings oil emulsion stain base WR4000, topped by a coat of shellac is my favorite. I tint the wr with transtint, and then tint the shellac to act as both a sealer to prevent the topcoat from lifting color and as a toner. Then topcoat with wb finish. The shellac needs to be sprayed for table tops and larger surfaces as does the wb topcoat. There are other methods.

Test test test before doing anything to your project. Hating finishing is generally due to lack of time to develop the knowledge and skills. Put in the same kind of time and effort as for other ww skills and you wont hate it anymore.

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